A charismatic civil war?
J Lee Grady just wrote an article that struck a cord with me because it clearly captures the way I feel in so many ways. In seems in the last couple of years I have been caught in J. Lee Grady’s spot once too often and have been perplexed as to why. You can check it out here. He uses the whole Lakeland meetings to make a larger point- I hope we don’t miss it because I think his point in this article could be the clearest direction for us as spirit filled christians in a while. The article also points out in a subtle way what Jesus’ desire is based on scripture rather than just a view of what we may sense may take place in the future. In light of this article, I think it is somewhat puzzling as to how much we ignore the clear teachings of scripture sometimes. Civil War amongst Christians? Are you for real? Isn’t love the defining mark of our faith?
Tom Tammaro said,
July 13, 2008 at 3:24 am
Just a thought…
I had someone tell me once, that “you can be absolutely right, and absolutely wrong at the same time.” It is interesting that the book given to the church in many ways to unite her is used so much more often to divide her. A great fault in the american church is our lack of honor for relationships. One day the bride is going to stand by each other simply because of our Agape within….. It doesn’t mean we all agree…just that we recognize Jesus in each other..
Its coming
mservello said,
July 13, 2008 at 1:08 pm
Hey Tom,
Good to hear from you. We miss you on the east coast!
I couldn’t agree more. I have felt so clearly from the Lord, maybe the clearest ever, for the past couple of years that in my relm of influence to be a source of unity and and not division. I dont want no “red coat” “blue coat” mentality around me but an understanding that we need every gift and every personality to make up what is the beautiful body of Christ. AND more importantly, we need to LOVE each other.
Blessings Bro!
r2ks said,
July 15, 2008 at 1:55 am
I would agree with you we Do not Need a Civial war Among us but we are in the last Days way are we not seeing this we have sat back and said Nothing Know look at our Streets in this Country Christians all we want is to Go to Church and have some one tickel our Ears i am so Sick of the way things are going a Man Mere Man stands up and is Praying diffrent Laying hands he does not fight the Norm and he is Satan Wow we all have been called Save as many as we Can for the Kingdom of God How many of these harasey hunters Looking to scalp Todd and lakeland are out there Truly standing up against Homosexuality and Satan MY God what is Wrong with Us do we have to Analize ever Little Thing have we come to The Point where we have increased in Knoledge so Much that we can not just take God Useing a man Like Todd Bentley what is going to happen we jesus come back dismiss that cause we can explain it away I stand By lakeland and what God is doing and No Brother or Sister in the Lord should endure what Todd and his Family is Endureing from so Called Christens
mservello said,
July 15, 2008 at 2:36 am
to R2ks-
Did you read the article? Nobody is scapling Todd Bentley on this blog. I do think that J Lee Grady’s perspective is balanced and points to something very significant. There is no BUT about it. Jesus’ prayer was that we would be one…not divided. Besides that, Your comments would be great except the Bible tells us to “test all things”. One of the churches in Revelation, one of the positive things Jesus said about them was they TESTED Ministries to see if they were genuine. Jesus rebuked them for other things but praised them for that.
Anywho…the article points to the BIBLICAL Perspective of Love and humiltiy. I remember back in 1994 when Toronto Blessing hit. I was mightly blessed by this by the way. I heard people say that those who didnt jump in were going to miss what GOd was doing. 14 years later I can tell you that people who got blessed from toronto are doing well and those who never went are doing well as well. The point is simply this… We need to be more open to all streams in the body of Christ - Todd included. When i say open i dont mean totally accepting..I just mean recieving the good and rejecting the bad. We need to Love all streams and be humble enough to realize we are don’t have it all figured out.
r2ks said,
July 15, 2008 at 3:04 am
Sorry if it Came across as Being harsh i was Not trying to Be that way. I did read the artical and it was very Good and Agree we should be in one accord not devided the artical was also talking about a Civil war. I beleive that we are Living in the Last Days and God is raiseing a Army up. I do not want to be a Cold Church nor a Luke warm one But one that has the Fire of GOD in it. what i was saying is that there are so many Christens Bashing Todd and everything he Does being under a Microscope How said is that. ( yes the Scriptures does Say to test all things ) when do we stop testing everything that God is Doing and start embrassing what he is doing. and i fully agree with You i asked my pastor awhile ago what he Thought and he stated there will be some form of Flesh in any revival we are Human. As a Christen I am sorry if I offended any Brother or Sister in the Lord
mservello said,
July 15, 2008 at 3:19 am
No Problem-
Just wanted to make sure you new the point was about LOve and and humility and not about bashing any ministry.
Matt said,
July 15, 2008 at 11:37 am
Michael,
I think it’s a shame, that as Jesus said the world would know us by the love we demonstrate for one another and, we continue to have this problem with opposing theologies in what should be a united context of Christianity.
I was preaching at a church not far from our area in February this year and used the story of the woman at the well in John 4, my message started out with the idea that there is an ever increasing polarization of church philosophy of “seeker sensitive” and “charismatic/judgment - hell fire and brimstone” streams of thinking. I talked about how these two divurging aspects of thought have caused debate and stir in the church but that the balance of Truth and Mercy is how Jesus approaches each person for the purpose of salvation. I used the woman at the well as the example. The truth is Jesus in context of culture virtually called the woman a whore, but extended his powerful grace and love to her by the principle of potential forgiveness….if she were to receive his statements with faith.
If you examine that scripture, she was not looking for forgiveness or for salvation, she came to the well, as many scholars believe, in the heat of the day because she was a social reject. Enduring contstant scrutiny she was humilated going to the well, it was her way of enabling a practical defense mechanism against daily shame. If you read it, she asked Jesus to take away her need to go to the well, not for eternal life. She wanted to AVOID the need to go to the well yet what she got was the ability to walk to the well with all the other women in the cool of the day, DESPITE other people’s opinion of her because the change was not external but rather internal. She met the Messiah….and then shared that message of truth and mercy with the town, an entire town was impacted by a rejected woman becuase Jesus told her the truth and then offered her a loving and merciful solution.
We need less bickering among the theologians, prophets, and spiritual thinkers of our generation and we need more people willing to act at the behest of our God for the purpose of change…..
Change in our souls and spirits
Change in our families
Change in our government
Change in our schools
Change in our churches
Change in our economy and personal finances
Change in our children
Change in our perspectives
Change in the heritage we leave for the next generation
Our nation needs a NEW move of God for the purpose of revival, and I may not personally agree with each and every thing that another man/woman of God is doing, I may not agree with their ideology, philosophy, or theology, but by all that is Godly, WE NEED A CHANGE IN OUR NATION! So if the next move of God comes from the Amish (if it’s truly God and genuinely so) then by all means, I will take a horse and buggy and go test the spiritual waters to find out if there’s something I can gain for my walk with Jesus so that my environment, my family, my community, and my generation can CHANGE!
r2ks said,
July 15, 2008 at 12:34 pm
Amen Matt.
I fully agree we have played church for so long i think we have all forgotten to be the church.
Look at the United states 92% of us claim to be Christens and our Country is Falling apart at the seams.
I do not want to be so Bible smart that i miss Jesus walking By leave me a Fisherman reaching the lost where ever I can and by watching the Revival in lakeland it has put more fire in my Bones.
mservello said,
July 15, 2008 at 3:41 pm
Matt-
I am reminded of church history when Charles Finney was brought before the leadership of the Presbyterian church for his “new measures”. The councel debated Finneys new measures. Half condemned it half were for them. At the end of it all Charles FInney stood and said he made a motion to have a council vote against Lukewarmness. We need to focus on the right things.
In regards to your story about Jesus. When it comes to Jesus we have to remember he had PERFECT knowledge in every situation. There was no chance of him having error. If we had his knowledge of the exact state of each persons heart we could maybe get away with somethings. The unfortunate thing is we are not God so we have to always Err on the side of Mercy. For example, Jesus said it is better if a millstone was hung around someones neck and you were thrown into the sea rather than offending a immature person. I’ll tell you hat with scriptures like that I’d think twice before calling a person who knows nothing about church a “whore”. I know Pastors who would be comfortable doing this and do it under the approval of certain scriptures…However, the millstone scripture would burn in my mind. Thats me personally. - thats not saying by the way that we shouldnt be straight forward and call sin sin…this is just a calrification as to HOW we would bring truth across.
I heard Billy Graham say this:
It’s The Holy Spirits Job to convict, Its God’s job to Judge, and my job to Love.
R2ks-
First off…Bible smart is always a good thing. Hard heartedness is always the problem not the Bible. I am reminded of my study of the book of proverbs. Proverbs have with in them some seemingly contradictory passages. Some tell you to shut up, Some tell you to speak boldly. some tell you to be cautious, Some tell you to take a risk. Every proverb is made toward a bent to your own personality. It sounds like you are VERY open, Wisdom says that if that is your bent you should learn to be more cautious. Something I learned from the great apostle Dick Iverson…There is nothing wrong in waiting and examining the fruit.